Historical Elements in Plato’s Atlantis Tale

Eine gute Erzählung imitiert Fakten. Platon selbst stellt seine Atlantis-Geschichte als philosophische Erzählung dar, erfunden um seinen fiktiven Idealstaat im Falle eines Krieges zu beschreiben. Rainer Kühne legt nun in seinem englisch-sprachigen Aufsatz nahe, dass Platon drei historische Elemente für seine Geschichte verwendet hat.

Historical Elements in Plato’s Atlantis Tale

von Rainer Kühne [i]

Good fiction imitates facts. Plato declared that his Atlantis tale is philosophical fiction invented to describe his fictitious ideal state in the case of war. I suggest that Plato used three historical elements for this tale. (i) Greek tradition on Mycenaean Athens for the description of ancient Athens, (ii) Egyptian records on the wars of the Sea Peoples for the description of the war of the Atlanteans, and (iii) oral tradition from Syracuse about Tartessos for the description of the city and geography of Atlantis.

1. Fictional Elements

Plato’s Atlantis tale (Timaios 20d-27a, Critias 106a-121c) is philosophical fiction invented to describe Plato’s fictitious ideal state in the case of war (Tim. 19b-20c). Plato invented the Atlantis tale after he failed twice in educating the tyrants of Syracuse to behave like philosopher kings [1, 2]. The Atlantis tale includes several elements which are based on neither Egyptian nor Greek historical records, but result from Plato’s philosophical views:

1. The Phaethon myth has an astronomical explanation (Tim. 22c-d).
2. Several floods (Tim. 23b) and cataclysms (Tim. 22c, 23a-b) have occurred during human history.
3. The Greek city of Athens is older than the Egyptian city of Sais (Tim. 23e).
4. The ancient Athens was reigned like Plato’s ideal state (Tim. 24a-b, 25e).
5. The ancient Athens has won a world war (Tim. 24e, 25c, Crit. 108e).
6. A continent exists beyond the Atlantic Sea (Tim. 25a).
7. The war was a joint venture of the Hellenes (Tim. 25b-c) which occurred long before the happenings of the Greek myths (Tim. 22a-c). By contrast, the first joint venture of the Hellenes was the Trojan war (Thucydides 1,3).
8. There is a mud sea in front of the Strait of Gibraltar (Tim. 25d, Crit. 108e-109a).
9. The then acropolis of Athens was very large (Crit. 112a). By contrast, Thucydides noted that all castles of the Mycenaean time appear small for his contemporaries (1,10).
10. The Atlanteans had triremes (Crit. 117d). By contrast, the first triremes were used by the Corintheans in the 8th century BC (Thucydides 1,13).

2. Odyssey

Homer’s Odyssey is poetry. It is often regarded as pure fiction. This view is supported by Ulysses’ adventures with giants like the Cyclops, goddesses like Athena and Circe, nymphs like Calypso, beasts like Scylla, and demons like the sirens.

On the other hand, Schliemann interpreted Scylla and Charybdis as the Strait of Messina. He interpreted Ogygia, the island of Calypso, as the east coast of Sicily, and Sheria, the country of the Phaeaceans, as Corfu [3].

Various authors have pointed out the similarities between Homer’s Sheria and Plato’s Atlantis [4, 5]. However, these similarities are not very specific.

1. The capitals of both Sheria (Od. 5.401) and Atlantis (Crit. 118a) lay near a steep coast.
2. The capital of Sheria was surrounded by a high wall (Od. 6.262). The capital of Atlantis was surrounded by several walls (Crit. 116a).
3. There were two harbours which allowed only a narrow entrance to the capital of Sheria (Od. 6.263-264). The capital of Atlantis was surrounded by three harbours (Crit. 117d).
4. In the harbours of both Sheria (Od. 6.264-265) and Atlantis (Crit. 116b) there were many ships.
5. In the capital of Sheria there was a realm of Poseidon (Od. 6.266) and the palace consisted of gold, silver, copper and electron (Od. 7.82-91). In the capital of Atlantis there was a grove of Poseidon (Crit. 117b) and the temple of Poseidon consisted of gold, silver, ivory and orichalcum (Crit. 116d).
6. In Sheria one could harvest fruit twice a year (Od. 7.117-119). In Atlantis one could harvest twice a year (Crit. 118a).
7. In Sheria there were two springs (Od. 7.129) and warm baths (Od. 8.249). In Atlantis there were two springs, one cold and one hot (Crit. 113e, 117a), and warm baths (Crit. 117b).
8. In Sheria reigned 13 kings simultaneously (Od. 8.390), who were descendants of Poseidon (Od. 13.130). In Atlantis reigned 10 kings simultaneously (Crit. 113e-114a, 116e, 119c), who were descendants of Poseidon (Crit. 113e-114c).
9. Both the kings of Sheria (Od. 8.431) and Atlantis (Crit. 120a) used gold goblets for drinking during ceremonies.

3. Ancient Athens

Plato’s description of the ancient Athens resembles the Bronze Age Athens during the period Late Helladic IIIB around 1200 BC. This suggests that Plato has used either Greek tradition or own investigations for the description of ancient Athens. These similarities include the following claims:

1. The accommodations of the warriors were in the northern part of the Athenian acropolis (Crit. 112b). In fact, this was the location of their accommodations from the 15th century until around 1200 BC [6].
2. A spring on the Athenian acropolis has been destroyed by earthquakes just after the war against the Atlanteans (Crit. 112c-d). In fact, Broneer excavated this fountain which has existed for only 25 years and has been destroyed by an earthquake around 1200 BC [7].
3. The Greeks had knowledge of writing until this earthquake (Tim. 23c). Indeed, the Mycenaean Linear B was written in Greek language [8] and its knowledge became lost in Greece around 1200 BC.

4. Sea Peoples

Around 1200 BC the countries in Asia Minor and the Near East were destroyed by a war [9]. The attackers were the Sea Peoples described by Pharaoh Ramses III [10]. The similarities between the Sea Peoples and the Atlanteans [11-13] suggest that Plato has used Egyptian records for the description of the Atlantean war. Quotations of the temple inscriptions are given in the combination of plate number and line number:

1. The Atlanteans fought against Europe and Asia (Tim. 24e) and ‘every country within the mouth’, i. e. against the Eastern Mediterranean countries (Tim. 25b). The Sea Peoples destroyed Hatti in Anatolia, Qode and Qarkemish in northern Syria, Arzawa in southwest Anatolia, and Alasia on Cyprus (Plate 46.16 – 17) and fought against Egypt.
2. The Atlanteans lived on an isle (Tim. 24e, 25a, 25d, Crit. 113c) and reigned over several other islands (Tim. 25a). Also the Sea Peoples came from islands (Pl. 37.8 – 9, 42.3, 46.16).
3. The Atlanteans reigned in Africa from the pillars of Heracles (Gibraltar) to the frontiers of Egypt (Tim. 25a – b). The war of the Sea Peoples against Egypt occurred simultaneously with the war of the Libyan Meshwesh. According to Ramses’ report they appeared to be allied.
4. Atlantis consisted of ten countries (Crit. 113e – 114a, 119b). According to the Karnak inscription written under pharaoh Merenptah around 1200 BC, the Sea Peoples consisted of the Ekwesh, Teresh, Lukka, Sherden, and Shekelesh. According to Ramses III their confederation consisted of the union of the countries of the Peleset, Theker, Shekelesh, Denen, and Weshesh (Pl. 46).
5. In the case of war the Atlanteans had more than one million soldiers (Crit. 119a – b). Ramses III claimed to have beaten hundreds of thousands of enemies (Pl. 18.16, 19.4 – 5, 27.63, 32.10, 79.7, 80.36, 80.44, 101.21, 121c.7). Occasionally, he spoke of millions (Pl. 27.64, 46.4, 46.6, 79.7, 101.21) and myriads (Pl. 27.64) of enemies who were numerous like locusts (Pl. 18.16, 80.36) or grasshoppers (Pl. 27.63).
6. The Atlanteans had 1200 war ships (Crit. 119b). The ships of the Sea Peoples entered deep into the delta of the Nile (Pl. 42.5) and destroyed the Asian Arzawa, the Cypric Alasia, and the near-eastern Ugarit and Amurru.
7. The Atlanteans had chariots pulled by horses (Crit. 119a). The Meshwesh had horses (Pl. 75.37) and carts (Pl. 18.16, 75.27) which, however, were pulled by oxen (figures to Pl. 32 – 34).
8. The Atlantean kings reigned for several generations (Crit. 120d – e) and after this they lost their good attitudes (Crit. 121a – b). Ramses III wrote about the Sea Peoples that they had spent a long time, a short moment was before them, then they entered the evil period (Pl. 80.16 – 17).
9. During a day and a night Atlantis sank by an earthquake into the sea (Tim. 25c – d). Ramses III wrote that he let the Sea Peoples see the majesty and force of (the God of water) Nun when he breaks out and lays their towns and villages under a surge of water (Pl. 102.21), moreover the mountains were in travail (Pl. 19.11).

5. Tartessos

Plato described the place of the Atlantean capital. The capital (Crit. 115c) was on a to-all-sides flat hill which was 50 stades (9 kilometres) distant from the sea and lay at the edge of a plain (Crit. 113c). This plain was rectangular (Crit. 118c), smooth and even. The plain lay on the southern part of the isle (Crit. 118a-b), in its middle (Crit. 113c). The plain was surrounded by mountains which reached to the sea (Crit. 118a). Apart from this, the country was very high and had a steep coast (Crit. 118a).
The isle of Atlantis was divided under the ten sons of Poseidon (Crit. 113e). The first born, Atlas, obtained the largest and best territory, namely the region around the capital (Crit. 114a). The second born, Gadeiros, obtained the part at the most distant edge which reached from the pillars of Heracles (Gibraltar) to the Gadeirean country (the region around Cadiz) (Crit. 114b).

The first born, Atlas, obtained the largest and best part. Therefore one can assume that the later born sons obtained smaller and smaller parts. According to this, the second born son, Gadeiros, obtained the second largest part of the “isle of Atlantis”. This part included the coastal region of Spain from Cadiz to Gibraltar. Here, the term “isle” should be rather understood as “coast” or “region”.

The part of the country belonging to Gadeiros was only a coastal region 100 kilometres long. The parts of the later born sons were probably even smaller. Thus, the part of the country belonging to Atlas cannot have been very far from Cadiz.

In fact, near Cadiz there is a rectangular (Crit. 118c), smooth and even plain which lies at a south coast (Crit. 118a-b). It is the plain south-west of Seville through which the Guadalquivir flows. Was here the capital of Atlantis?

The geography of Atlantis resembles that of the Iron Age Tartessos [13-18]. This suggests that Plato has heard about Tartessos from Greek sailors during his visits in Syracuse. There are the following similarities between Tartessos and Atlantis:

1. Tartessos lay in the mouth of the Guadalquivir river. Atlantis lay in front of the pillars of Heracles, i. e. Gibraltar (Tim. 24e, Crit. 108e) and at a south coast (Crit. 118b).
2. The plain of Tartessos included a system of channels. Plato reported the same about the plain of Atlantis (Crit. 118d-e).
3. Tartessos was surrounded by the Sierra Morena and the Sierra Nevada. The plain of Atlantis was surrounded by high mountains (Crit. 118a-b).
4. Tartessos was rich in metals. Plato reported the same about Atlantis (Crit. 114e).
5. According to archaeological evidence and Strabon (III 139), the Tartessians had knowledge of writing. Plato wrote the same about the Atlanteans (Crit. 119c-d).

6. Conclusion

Plato’s Atlantis tale (Tim. 20d-27a, Crit. 106a-121c) is philosophical fiction invented to describe Plato’s fictitious ideal state in the case of war (Tim. 19b-20c). Plato invented the Atlantis tale after he failed twice in educating the tyrants of Syracuse to behave like philosopher kings [1, 2]. However, the Atlantis tale appears to include three historical elements [13].

1. Plato’s description of ancient Athens resembles Mycenaean Athens of the period LH IIIB around 1200 BC [6, 7]. Plato appears to have used either Greek tradition or own investigations.
2. Plato’s description of the Atlantean war resembles the war of the Sea Peoples around 1200 BC [11-13]. Plato appears to have used the temple inscriptions of Medinet Habu written under pharaoh Ramses III.
3. Plato’s description of the city and geography of Atlantis resembles that of iron age Tartessos [13-18]. Plato appears to have heard about Tartessos during his visits in Syracuse.

7. Outlook

Preliminary support for Atlantis in the Guadalquivir valley has been presented by Werner Wickboldt at the conference The Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land’, 11-13 July 2005, Milos Island, Greece. He presented a satellite photo of the Donana National Park which apparently shows the following structures.

1. A rectangular structure of size 230 metres times 140 metres which could be a remnant of the “silver temple of Poseidon” (Crit. 116c-d). The geographical coordinates of this structure are 36°57’27” +/- 6”N and 6°23’06” +/- 8”W.
2. A rectangular structure of size 280 metres times 240 metres located 500 metres south-west of the first structure. It could be a remnant of the “golden temple of Poseidon and Cleito” (Crit. 116c).
3. These two structures are surrounded by parts of concentric rings. They could be remnants of the concentric rings of earth and water (Crit. 115e-116a).
4. A chain of lakes located north-west of these structures which could be a remnant of the channel which ranged from the capital of Atlantis to the sea (Crit. 115d).



11 Kommentare

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1. Mr Khüne: You would be so amiable to indicate, exactly, in that passage of the Timaeus, or Critias, Plato say: \”that his Atlantis destroys is philosophical fiction invented to describes his fictitious ideal state in the marries of to war\”. I will be thankful by its answer, because I not found that supposed \”declaration\” of Plato by any part in the Timaeus nor in the Critias.Perhaps on the other hand, you not yet know, that the three points that you indicate, already before have been indicated, and deeply investigated by many other authors German, and Spaniards, being the Spanish authors first, in special Juan Fernandez Amador y de los Ríos (1919) the first (to where I have found out) which it investigated the relation of them \”Sea Peoples\” with the Atlanteans, and although also dedicated an ample study of comparison between Tartessos and Atlantis, before that the German authors. In fact, the first that did it were Morzillus (century XV), Mariana (century XV), and Pellicer de Ossau y Tovar (century XVII), but of manner brief or summarized. In fact, Pellicer de Ossau y Tovar proposed like location of Atlantis to the marshes of the Coto de Doñana, where it thought that it was also Tartessus, that stops he was same city of Atlantis, as also the remaining authors believed. Later it came Schülten and it exposed the same hypotheses and almost same arguments, and after Schülten other authors German like Jessen… They have spent several years since you know the priority the Spanish authors, which appears reflected, since then, in all the versions of Wikipedia, even in German, but you continue ignoring the credit the Spanish authors… Would be so amiable you to respond why reason you you never want to recognize the merit, and the intellectual priority, of the Spanish authors?On the other hand, You say in your article:
   

   quote:“…Plato’s Atlantis tale … is philosophical fiction invented to describe Plato’s fictitious ideal state in the case of war…”.

   Also is a Hypothesis very old, and in fact, is the extended hypothesis more between all the scientists of the academic world, from the Universities of Spain, to Germany, and the USA, and any University of the world.On the other hand, \”Plato’s ideal state \”, does not have absolutely anything to do with Atlantis nor Athens. This criterion has been imposed by many academic ones of manner forced (and you simply take it like certain, because they say the academic ones to it), but a study deep, statistical, and comparative, has demonstrated that the similarities are minimum, and generals, that is, same simple similarities, that can be given in two types of states whatever they are compared.About its last conclusions, numbers 2 and 3. I suppose that you know that you are very difficult to be able to demonstrate those conclusions, that in fact, they are subjective speculations, because you cannot (nor nobody) know if in Syracuse somebody counted the history of Plato de Tartessos, this is same speculative argument of Mr James, to the supposition that Solón, when visiting Lydia, found out the history of Tantalus, and from it obtained material there to make the narration of Atlantis. As much you as Mr James, they go to arguments that are only subjective speculations, but that you two offer like conclusions, that is, as if they were done demonstrated, or very probable scientific hypotheses. Not text exists no of antiquity that allows to support those speculation of that Plato has known history abour Tartessos in Syracuse, neither in no other part, as either paleographical does not exist no proof (text old) that credits that Plato has been in Medinat Habut, something that is very little probable. There are other ways more logics and probable to explain these facts, simply, to consider that Plato said the truth, when he affirmed in several occasions that \”were not no myth, nor a narration made, but a true history\”, and from this point, to assume that perhaps Plato was only trasmitiendo a history that really was written by Solón, as they affirm other authors, like Plutarchus; and in fact, I have presented in two universities of Spain, my discoveries of existing archaic forms in oldest codices and MS known the Plato’s Timaeus and Critias, that is, old words, and expressions, that had let be used several centuries before Plato, and that were current in the times of Solón, and previous to Solón even.

   And this is not mere subjective speculations, is done, that is to say, paleographical proofs. In addition, other authors exist who by routes different from Plato, spoke of Atlantis, or Atlanteans towns, that lived in the Atlantic, and this demonstrates that one old tradition existed on the Atlanteans and an Atlantic civilization, independent to Plato.About satellite photo of the Donana National Park, which apparently shows the following structures, presented by Werner Wickboldt, a long time ago I warned you, even before the Milos Conference (right here in AR Forum), and before our lamentable disputes (that I hope do not return to happen more never), than were not constructions of no type, but simple natural shades of formation of paleodunes and typical stream paleo-channels of the salt marsh. The problem were that professor Werner Wickboldt used photos of low resolution. I sent to you photos in greater definition, where it was possible to be seen that there were no ruins of constructions of no type. And in fact, the Spanish scientists already have confirmed whom in that point, any archaeological ruin of any time does not exist, not even medieval.

   In addition, also I informed that it was impossible that old ruins could exist, because the geological studies and soundings that geologists have made during many years of investigation in Doñana, demonstrates that all the salt marshes of Doñana was a great lake or marine gulf that existed more than 6000 years ago after the Roman time, that is when it begins to fill of sediments. In fact, data exist (documents, maps, etc) that demonstrate that still in the Medieval Age, around century IX AD, still it was a great gulf or lake. Scientific Conclusion (nonmere speculations): in the situated one where professor Werner Wickboldt says that he had seen in satellite photos, ruins of two possible temples, do not exist anything, nor could exist nothing, after the Roman time. And it is as easy as to invite to that it sees with Google Map that exact part, that Werner Wickboldt mentions, and who you (without verifying the evidences, nor to make case some to the warnings, and to the good advice, haste in disclosing by average world occurred. Why you never show to hi-res photos where we pruned to see those supposed ruins. I yes have shown all those photos, and now once again shipment to readers Google Map, and we will see if somebody both sees temples of Poseidon and Kleito, that you and Mr Wickboldt have believed to see.What Mr Wickboldt, and you, have confused with possible temples, are simply the produced typical depressions by the \”Lucios\”, that are pools, or small lagoons; the majority artificial, created by the workers of the Doñana Natural Park for to favor the habitat of certain species.I yes have reported the first artificial and old structures in Doñana (not in this point, by all means, because this part was a gulf in the antiquity), but in other near points where always there was mainland. Some of those structures that I have discovered, have forms of concentric circles and rings.

   In summary, its article is in fact a journalistic summary (that is, since any journalist would do) of the main hypotheses already established in many previous authors, including same that you refer in the end. Which does not mean that it is not a work interesting, and useful, but I believe that it is necessary to establish the reality of the facts, because somebody could think, of mistaken way, that its last article is a hypothesis or original theory.

   Kind Regards,Georgeos Díaz-MontexanoScientific Atlantology International Society (SAIS) http://www.GeorgeosDiazMontexano.com/

   Kommentar von Georgeos Diaz-Montexano

2. 6. A continent exists beyond the Atlantic Sea (Tim. 25a).

   Plato mentions a continent that was opposite (katantikrus) to the other islands (allas nesous), and does not have to manner to know surely if he were speaking of the part of the North of Europe, or Greenland. In any case, yes he exists that continent, or \”terra Fïrma\” (êpeiros), and Plato was not the unique one in speaking of the continental earth existence, when happening the Pillars of Hercules, that is, continental territories of Atlantic Europe, and Atlantic Africa.

   8. There is a mud sea in front of the Strait of Gibraltar (Tim. 25d, Crit. 108e-109a).

   And it is not a fiction either, or invention of Plato, the description of the Atlantic pelagus with mud, affirms other authors to it, even the Aristotles himself, and also before Plato, in the Solon’s times, he famous Skylax. In whatever to them you are, is argument a little absurd, by simple reason that it was used in classic Literature Greek like a generic term to denominate ships, of any type, in general, that is, that we cannot demonstrate that Plato used east term in the sense of trirows classic, he could have used the term in the general sense, that is to say, only like \”Ships\”.

   In any case, if we are going to look for strange elements, we can find others complex, or much more contradictory, like for example, the \”canalized aqueducts above of bridges\”, this is the description of the Roman aqueduct \”typical\”, like which we can see in Segovia, Spain. Officially, this type of aqueduct was not invented by the Romans, until several centuries after dying Plato. Then, how we can explain this description? Only there are two possible ways:

   1. in the Atlantis (that I have by Iberia and Morocco) already existed east type of aqueducts, and that later the Romans, when arriving at Spain, copied, since they did with 90% of his architectonic elements, and supposed inventions, that in fact copied (although they improved all almost) of the conquered towns.

   2. The part of the description of Atlantis, that is in the Critias, from Critias 116 in ahead, is a text apócrifo, added by another later author, who lived in the days of Rome. I have found some paleographical proofs that they could support this hypothesis second, but also have archaeological proofs that could support the first option. therefore, the solution of this mystery is at the moment impossible to solve.

   Kommentar von Georgeos Diaz-Montexano

3. Mr. Kühne:

   This is brief ready a bibliographical one of some Hispanic-Latin authors, who before the authors German exposed, and defended, the identification of Atlantis with Iberia, and in individual with the area of Doñana and the environs of the opening of the Guadalquivir, and also the identification of the Atlanteans with the \”Sea Peoples\”, and in general, with most of the hypotheses and arguments that you have taken from the authors later Germans.

   1- Sebastiani Foxij Morzilli (Spaniard)… In Platonis Timaeum Commentarij … Fox Morcillo, Sebastián (1526-1560). per Ioannem Oporinum, 1554 Basileae. (the first short studie about Atlantis in Iberia, Gades, etc.)

   2- Pavli Benii Evgvbini (Italian). In Platonis Timaeus. Apud Proclus Commentarius… In Platonis Timaeum seu in Naturalem omnem atque Divinam Platonis et Aristotelis Philosophiam Decade tres.
   Romae, in 4°, 1594; e poi 1605; Patavii, in fol. (extense studie about Plato’s Timaeus wiht identification of Gades was an extensive part of same Atlantis; an extremity of the Atlantis, placed next to the Straits of Hercules)

   3- Juan de Mariana (Spaniard). Historia general de Espana… Añadido en esta vltima impression por D. Felix Lucio de Espinosa y Malo, todo lo sucedido desde el año de mil y seiscientos y sesenta y nueve, hasta el de setenta y ocho Madrid : Por A. Garcia de la Iglesia : Acosta de G. de Leon, 1678. (Note: the original Mariana’s Book was before to 1600 AD, and was the first short studie about Atlantis in Iberia, wiht the hypothesis about the Mouth of Guadalquivir)

   4- Joseph Pellicer de Ossau y Tovar (Spaniard). Aparato a la mvonarchia antigua de las Españas en los tres tiempos del mundo, el adelon, el mithico y el historico : primera parte… / por don Ioseph Pellicer de Ossau y Touar… (En Valençia : por Benito Macè…, 1673 (the first extense studie about Atlantis in Iberia, wiht the hypothesis about Doñana)

   5- Juan Fernández Amador de los Ríos (Spaniard). Antigüedades ibéricas / por Juan Fernández Amador de los Rios. Pamplona : Nemesio Aramburu, 1911. (first part about the Atlantis in Iberia, wiht the hypothesis about Doñana, Sea Peoples, etc.)

   6- Juan Fernández Amador de los Ríos (Spaniard). Atlántida : Estudio arqueológico, histórico y geográfico / Juan Fernández Amador de los Ríos. Zaragoza : “Heraldo”, 1925. (First Part, more extense about the Atlantis in Iberia, wiht the hypothesis about Doñana, Sea Peoples, etc.)

   I hope that sometimes you decide to recognize these investigators who by right, and own merits, would have to be recognized by all the present investigators, and who went ahead to all the investigators Germans known in the hypotheses about Atlantis in Iberia, Tartessus, and its possible location in some point of the salt marshes of Doñana, or opening of the Guadalquivir, and that they also identified to the \”Sea Peoples\” like same Atlanteans. Simply, it is a mere question of professional and scientific ethics.

   Kommentar von Georgeos Diaz-Montexano

4. ALLES GUTE, HERR DR KÜHNE,. . . . 21-Juni- 2007, von Delft in Holland.

   ÜBER den Entdeckung von: ATLANTIS-in-ADEN, ( von ‘ BlueHue ‘.)

   Nur muss ich ihnen mitteilen dass ich den Geichung des Landes u Hauptstadt von( E-)Scheria-Atlantis schon in: 2005 in meiner ABSATZ/ Abstract nach MELOS-21 Konferenz gemacht habe.

   Auch in AO habe ich ihnen um Kommentar auf dieser Befindung gefragt aber noch nicht bekommen.

   Meiner Meinug nach ist EUROPA eine KOLONIE der alten Atlanten, u soll daher das originale richtige ATLANTIS dort geliegen sein, wo diese Kolonisten hergekommen sind, als Flüchtlingen vom Untergang wegen den Kataklysmus.

   Dass ist also nicht in Klein-ASIA-Minor sondern vom ASIA-Major dass ist in ARABIUA-Foëlix in ADEN( heute in Yemen.)who den MINEANS wegzogen um das MINOISCHES REICH zu stiften.

   Sehen sie dass alle 1005 Atlantologer dieses Gesichtspunkt in MELOS_1 verpasst haben ?

   Auch is ATLANTIS, PLATON nach eben wohl nicht in Mitten-Atlantik gelegen, weil den original Text eingekürzt worden ist und deshalb ein Mangel hat der auch Niemanden auser einer:’GEORGEOS”aufgefunden hatte

   PLATON schrieb ja: Dass Atlantis im Extremität eines MEERES-BUCHT abgesnitten voim OZEAN lag, also einer GOLF- SACKGASSE. Den Hiess ubrigens MEER des Atlas o. Atlantis, Den OZEAN hiess ja nicht den Atlantischer sondern den OIKUMENES-Ozean.

   Da haben dieser 105 schlechter lesende nachlässige Atlantologer GEORGEOS aus ihre ACHTUNG gebannt weil er angeblich ihrer Tradition Texte beleidigt o.geschädigt hatte.

   BITTE zu denken dass weil den Original Text schlecht o. rein falschlich gelesen o interpretiert sind “hatten den 105 wilde-Atlantologer Theorien keine historische sondern nur eben doch Litterarische Werte. Dafur hat man den einzige von Mainstream -abweigende richtige Atlantis -in- Aden Theorie ins PURGATORIUM versetzt.

   KONKLUSION:

   ATLANTIS war DAS LAND-von-AD oder gleich ADEN in Yemen.

   Verbindliche Grüssen von hernn :”BlueHue ” ( aus : Forums AR & AO.)

   Kommentar von BlueHue

5. Ich habe soëben meine Komentar zu Ihre AtlANTIS ARTIKEL VERSANDEN HOFFE DASS ES BALT VERÖFFENTLICHT WIRD. Und Erwarte ihr gelehrtes Antwort darauf

   Kommentar von BlueHue

6. Da muss ich aufs Neue eine stunden Text wieder eintypen weil etwas Schief gegangen war: dd.- 212-Juni- 2007

   HERR DR KÜHNE, Alles GUTE,

   IM KURZEN;

   Schon in 2005 machte ich den vergleichung von ( E-)Scheria u. Atlantis in Einer ABSAZT/ ABSTRACT nach MELOS-1 -atlantis-Konferenz ,

   Alle wilde Atlantis Theorieën der 105 MELOS-Atlantologer mitsamt ihrer sind Falsch weil Platon’s Text nicht richtig übersetzt worden ist aus dem verwirrenden Griecher Original.

   ES SEI DASS den OZEAN Oikumenes Hiess u. nur Ein ABSCHNITT davon war den Atlantischert SEE oder MEER von ATLAS vernannt worden.

   KONKLUSION: Gefolgemachung:

   “EUROPA”ist ein Atlantische KOLONIE, den Atlanten kamen also irgendwoanders her, meiner Meinung nach sind es den MINEANS der aus ASAIR u.ADEN gefligen sind wegen der Atlantis Untergang.

   ADEN ist Identisch mit den LAND des AD und dies mit ATLANTIS. . .

   Verbindliche Grüssen von : ” BlueHue ” ( aus den Forums; AR & AO. )

   Kommentar von BlueHue

7. I like it, thank you. :)
   http://2seehe.110mb.com/arkcorre3c/arlington-baptist-church-first.html arlington baptist church first
   With best regards…

   Kommentar von Apperly

8. Atlantis is decoded!!!
   Cosmogeological real map of Atlantis, six main rivers, two volcanoes, Pluto’s and Ammon’s (Mu) small islands and approximately places of smaller islands of Persephone. pre-flood coastal zone of North America and the magnetic field direction to the end last inter-flood period.

   http://www.cosmogeology.ge/chapter.htm

   Kommentar von K. Margiani

9. Hello,

   The Sphinx and three pyramids are markers of time of new (alpha-omega) cycle that will be finished after few centuries in 2,400 ± 50. This is a message sent by ancient civilization to us about finished old (alpha-omega) cycle. Ancient anniversary Zep-Tepi had been sacred to new (alpha-omega) cycle and was the proof about the beginning of the new (alpha-omega) epoch.
   We have a greatest epoch of the prohibited History. Lots of artifacts of the pre-flood history are forbidden by false “fathers” of the mainstreams. 30,000 Atlantian or Olmecian artifacts found by Scottish Mineralogist and Archeologist William Niven are hidden in the museums of New York and Mexico. Lots of so called “researches” are written for the money, not for the Truth. They could rise lots of money for the falsification of the our real history. “Fathers” of the falsifications led by Dr. Zahi Hawass and Dr . Mark Lehner have the ostrich position against the modern discoveries made by many investigators. These video clips in the link are taken from the interesting investigations and closely connected to the much more sensational discovery that the Atlantis City. If you know Geology can understand everything!
   http://www.cosmogeology.ge/chapter-25.htm

   The Giza complex is sacred to the global geo-catastrophe that started on 21 October 12,475 (10,465 B.C.) years ago. Sphinx indicates epoch of the event, i.e. Leo’s epoch. Three stars of the Orion’s belt indicate the three Giza pyramids at the event boundary and causeway from the middle pyramid to the sphinx indicates sunrise, i.e. 21-22, 23 October during the event. Of 21 October to 23 October continued EB geo-transfer and terrible earthquakes that formed last global deluge all over the Earth. Under the crust situates huge Magma Ocean. Approximately deepness of the fiery Magma Ocean is measured ~400km. Mantle plumes discovered by many geologists are the proofs about powerful liquid waves within the Magma Ocean. The waves are formed by penetration or rapid movement of the fiery liquid masses from the outer nucleus into the Magma Ocean (Asthenosphere). Reversal and recovery of the global Magnetic field, powerful wave deformation of the crust, runaway subductions and kilometers high tsunamis and partially or global extinctions are the side effects only.

   The Giza project began by survived Atlantians after 10,465 B.C. and finished approximately in 10,400 B.C. Of course the project had been sacred to last global deluge. Thus minimal age of the Sphinx and three pyramids is that – 10.400+2010=12.410 years. It has no alternative. Whole Elite of the modern Geology want to say to egyptologist that the Sphinx has the much older age but the egyptologists have the ostrich position ??????

   http://www.cosmogeology.ge/chapter-(31).pdf

   http://www.cosmogeology.ge/chapter-(32).pdf

   http://www.cosmogeology.ge/chapter-(33).pdf

   Thus the megalithic complex of the Giza sacred to last global deluge in 10,465B.C. To explain each periodical global deluge we have the additional proofs as well. There are discovered shift and reversal of the magnetic poles by many scientists. Scientific falsifications are interrelated to the wrong authorities and they have the ostrich position against my discoveries but the reversal events have been discovered by best scientists, best intellectuals of the world. Each reversal event has an interesting and only explanation. These events are the proofs about powerful liquid waves within outer nucleus. Only one force of the universe can do it. This is an amazing geological force EB geo-transfer. It causes penetration or rapid movement the outer nucleus masses under the crust and mantle plumes, powerful liquid waves within Magma Ocean, deformation all over the crust, kilometers high tsunamis and shifting all lithosphere platforms over the 1000-1500km. Shift of the geographical poles are discovered by many scientists as well. shift of all lithosphere platforms over the 1000-1500km means drifting of the continents for few days over the 1000-1500km. Only one force of the universe can do something like this – powerful liquid waves under the crust, within Magma Ocean.

   Thus future of the modern geology is that Gradualism + catastrophic plate tectonics [periodical global deluges all over the earth]. It means that every 7,000-13,000 years runaway subduction and drifting of the continents for few days over the 1000-1500km.

   All well-known pyramids of Egypt: “Khufu’s”, “Khafre’s”, “Menkaure’s”, Djoser’s, Meidum, bent and red pyramids are sacred to Atlantis people, to revere souls of the Atlantis people. Additionally the Giza complex exactly indicates the astronomical date of the deluge (22±1 October 10,465B.C.). Thus the Giza complex had been sacred to global deluge in 10,465B.C. as well. Symbolical graves in the pyramids have been sacred to victims, to their souls. The treasures, things and tools in the closed rooms of the pyramids are the heavenly gifts for the souls.
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPPfj_op0yI

   Best wishes,
   K. Margiani

   Founder new field of science Cosmogeology

   Kommentar von K. Margiani

10. K. Margiani says:

    The Egyptology – pseudoscientific field.
    I’m very sorry but this is the truth. Modern Egyptology is died and needs to be recovery from the new roots. Triumph of the false degrees and false authorities have already produced dead full crisis in the historical sciences as well. Who is the blame?
    1. For decades falsification of the mankind’s history by false degrees.
    2. Lots of “researches” on ancient history, written for the money, not for the truth.
    3. The false dating for the pre-flood (before 10,465 B.C.) and post-flood megalithic constructions.
    4. Absolutely ignorance of the geological data in dating for the pre-flood (before 10,465 B.C.) and post-flood megalithic constructions.
    5. Non-scientific hysteria in the mass-media against true discoveries on forgotten greatest history.
    6. An amazing discoveries by Rene Schwaller de Lubicz, John Anthony West, Dr. Robert shock, Graham Hancock, Prof. Charles H. Hapgood, William Niven and other intellectuals including my ground breaking investigations.
    7. Silence by many Egyptologists about the amazing discoveries.
    8. Selective investigations with disappearance of the many unacceptable data.
    ….etc.
    Falsification of the greatest pre-flood and post-flood history, mainly began by first Egyptologists and have come to the extreme limit by modern Egyptologists led by greatest false-makers and false authorities of the historical sciences: Dr. Zahi Hawass and Dr . Mark Lehner. Restoration date of the pre-flood and post-flood megalithic construction does not mean that the amazing artifacts have been built at the dynastic epoch?????
    I’m ready to defend each my word in the debates or in the law-court. I’ve ordered the place in the “scientific graveyard” for the Egyptology. An amazing truth on pre-flood and post-flood history is decoded and all old books on history should be edited to rewrite…
    “Ostriches’ and ignorantes’ ” have already killed the science and the Egyptology is rotten to the bones.
    I’m vary sorry once again on my world announcement – Egyptology as a science has already DIED!…

    K. Margiani
    Founder new field of science Cosmogeology

    Kommentar von K. Margiani

11. All well-known pyramids of Egypt: “Khufu’s”, “Khafre’s”, “Menkaure’s”, Djoser’s, Meidum, bent and red pyramids are sacred to Atlantis people, to revere souls of the Atlantis people. Additionally the Giza complex exactly indicates the astronomical date of the deluge (22±1 October 10,465B.C.). Thus the Giza complex had been sacred to global deluge in 10,465B.C. as well. Symbolical graves in the pyramids have been sacred to victims, to their souls. The treasures, things and tools in the closed rooms of the pyramids are the heavenly gifts for the souls.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPPfj_op0yI

    Best wishes,
    K. Margiani
    Founder new field of science Cosmogeology

    Kommentar von K. Margiani

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